Comments on: Faith is a Verb, Not a Thing http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/ An online community sharing our lives and faith within a place of grace Thu, 22 Dec 2011 05:29:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Linda Bale http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-41982 Linda Bale Fri, 29 Jul 2011 15:55:15 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-41982 Anita you are so funny it's ok to be trite as that is how it is some days. As I contemplate the having a relationship with an approval rating more than the Living ,loving word and that the "word" became only a way of finding a god sort of I amazed how I could have been a christian for over 30 years and never really got it. I am not going to activly seek a realtionship with god or jesus but if they want to showup in my life and show me they love me I am open to it. Just keep shreing your faith here you have thrown me a life line and you didn't even know I was drownding. again thans you soooo much. Anita you are so funny it’s ok to be trite as that is how it is some days. As I contemplate the having a relationship with an approval rating more than the Living ,loving word and that the “word” became only a way of finding a god sort of I amazed how I could have been a christian for over 30 years and never really got it. I am not going to activly seek a realtionship with god or jesus but if they want to showup in my life and show me they love me I am open to it. Just keep shreing your faith here you have thrown me a life line and you didn’t even know I was drownding. again thans you soooo much.

]]> By: anita http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-41930 anita Fri, 29 Jul 2011 04:55:10 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-41930 Linda, I'm so glad you shared all that and there are certainly others who know first-hand what you're talking about and what that journey has been like. The thought I had while reading what this glimpse of your story and hearing other similar ones (as well as considering my own) is that those early years, the <em>before</em> years when perhaps looking back seem clouded with less-than-holy motives were still as genuine and pure as we knew at the time. And it definitely mattered to us then and now. We let go of some things, we question others, we discover new possibilities, but it's all part of the journey. By the by, I know that sounds way too trite but I can't help myself :) Linda, I’m so glad you shared all that and there are certainly others who know first-hand what you’re talking about and what that journey has been like. The thought I had while reading what this glimpse of your story and hearing other similar ones (as well as considering my own) is that those early years, the before years when perhaps looking back seem clouded with less-than-holy motives were still as genuine and pure as we knew at the time. And it definitely mattered to us then and now. We let go of some things, we question others, we discover new possibilities, but it’s all part of the journey. By the by, I know that sounds way too trite but I can’t help myself :)

]]> By: Linda Bale http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-41900 Linda Bale Thu, 28 Jul 2011 19:17:15 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-41900 New Post; OMG Anita you have just totally said what I needed to hear. Five years ago my faith along with the rest of my life evaporated through a series of life changing events that happened. I have been wandering spiritually ever since, and so mad at God I couldn't even look at a bible with out literally throwing up. I recently became aware I am lesbian as well. Something that actually had brought alot of peace to me, except how my five kids are going to react to the news when I tell them. But I wonder if I ever really had a relationship with the Loving Word, I knew the word and could quote it. I was the mom who got up to have my "quiet time before the kids got up. Most of the time it was while I was nursing the baby at 4 am. I was active in church and gave God credit for everything. I see now though that maybe I was really having a relationship with an approval rating like so many in the evangelical bible is God's Word camp. I truly want to know if there is a God and does he/she love me and I have no idea what to do with Jesus and all that.. I am so grateful that I read this today. Thanks Anita. I truly believe you are light and love in the world and you make the best cookies on earth. I also love Kathleen Norris and I will have to dig out that book again and read it once more and the others that are mentioned above too.. So glad God made you thanks again and again. New Post;

OMG Anita you have just totally said what I needed to hear. Five years ago my faith along with the rest of my life evaporated through a series of life changing events that happened. I have been wandering spiritually ever since, and so mad at God I couldn’t even look at a bible with out literally throwing up. I recently became aware I am lesbian as well. Something that actually had brought alot of peace to me, except how my five kids are going to react to the news when I tell them. But I wonder if I ever really had a relationship with the Loving Word, I knew the word and could quote it. I was the mom who got up to have my “quiet time before the kids got up. Most of the time it was while I was nursing the baby at 4 am. I was active in church and gave God credit for everything. I see now though that maybe I was really having a relationship with an approval rating like so many in the evangelical bible is God’s Word camp. I truly want to know if there is a God and does he/she love me and I have no idea what to do with Jesus and all that.. I am so grateful that I read this today. Thanks Anita. I truly believe you are light and love in the world and you make the best cookies on earth. I also love Kathleen Norris and I will have to dig out that book again and read it once more and the others that are mentioned above too.. So glad God made you thanks again and again.

]]> By: shar http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-13954 shar Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:55:37 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-13954 Hmmm - I have been holding off even reading this blog the time I have spent on this site but I am glad to have finally gone over it. In the tradition I come from we were taught something called the Wesleyan Quadrilateral - four squares used to interpret our faith. Only one of those was scripture, the others, experience, reason and tradition. When contemplating the journey a young friend of mine is undergoing right now as he struggles with being gay and Christian, i have come to some conclusions based on this. Scripture - well, if we want to proof text I guess we could use all the traditional "god hates gays" stuff but scripture also teaches me alot about the unconditional and non-condemning love of God. Reason? How can a God who created me with a desire for intense emotional and physical love with a person of teh same sex than condemn his very creation? I though He loved everybody? Experience? My experience has been a reassuring warm hug from a Saviour who has promised to never leave me or forsake me, even if all others do. Experience also tells me there is a wide, wide world of grace-filled gay men and woman who have come to an undertanding of the Lord that I long to attain. And finally tradition - something tells me if I go back far enough I would discover that it is NOT Christian tradition - not forever anyway, to hate the homosexual. That seems to have come out extremely horrifically to hate us since we actaully put the word in the bible (early 1930's?). And it seems to me tha the greatest 'heroes of faith' never found it to be a tradition to bash anybody. My Bible college 'earth-shattering' moment was the day I discovered that the "word of the Lord" was a small 'w' - it was his spirit speaking to the people that was infallible, not the written document we read today. My thoughts for now... Hmmm – I have been holding off even reading this blog the time I have spent on this site but I am glad to have finally gone over it. In the tradition I come from we were taught something called the Wesleyan Quadrilateral – four squares used to interpret our faith. Only one of those was scripture, the others, experience, reason and tradition. When contemplating the journey a young friend of mine is undergoing right now as he struggles with being gay and Christian, i have come to some conclusions based on this. Scripture – well, if we want to proof text I guess we could use all the traditional “god hates gays” stuff but scripture also teaches me alot about the unconditional and non-condemning love of God. Reason? How can a God who created me with a desire for intense emotional and physical love with a person of teh same sex than condemn his very creation? I though He loved everybody? Experience? My experience has been a reassuring warm hug from a Saviour who has promised to never leave me or forsake me, even if all others do. Experience also tells me there is a wide, wide world of grace-filled gay men and woman who have come to an undertanding of the Lord that I long to attain. And finally tradition – something tells me if I go back far enough I would discover that it is NOT Christian tradition – not forever anyway, to hate the homosexual. That seems to have come out extremely horrifically to hate us since we actaully put the word in the bible (early 1930′s?). And it seems to me tha the greatest ‘heroes of faith’ never found it to be a tradition to bash anybody.

My Bible college ‘earth-shattering’ moment was the day I discovered that the “word of the Lord” was a small ‘w’ – it was his spirit speaking to the people that was infallible, not the written document we read today.

My thoughts for now…

]]> By: anita http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-13276 anita Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:19:30 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-13276 Wayne---> I hope you know that while my position on the infallibility of the Scriptures isn't the same you share that I totally appreciate the place in which you stand. For me as well it was and always been my faith in Christ and God's grace that has sustained me through all seasons of my life including coming out as a lesbian. And I agree Wayne, I don't believe the Bible deals with sexual orientation at all, but instead focuses on the purity of our hearts and intentions in matters related to all aspects of our human relationships including those that are sexually intimate. While I'm not looking for a patron saint in Paul or anyone for that matter, I do think the man has to be held in context with his times and given the understanding that from the world in which he existed Paul was as radical and inclusive as they come. Wayne—> I hope you know that while my position on the infallibility of the Scriptures isn’t the same you share that I totally appreciate the place in which you stand. For me as well it was and always been my faith in Christ and God’s grace that has sustained me through all seasons of my life including coming out as a lesbian. And I agree Wayne, I don’t believe the Bible deals with sexual orientation at all, but instead focuses on the purity of our hearts and intentions in matters related to all aspects of our human relationships including those that are sexually intimate. While I’m not looking for a patron saint in Paul or anyone for that matter, I do think the man has to be held in context with his times and given the understanding that from the world in which he existed Paul was as radical and inclusive as they come.

]]> By: Wayne Sacchi http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-12983 Wayne Sacchi Thu, 12 Nov 2009 04:40:11 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-12983 I am a Gay Christian who does believe in the Inspiration (breathed out writings)and infallibility (will not lead you to error) of Scripture. It took me 35 years to come out of my religious gay closet. What sustained me is my faith in Jesus Christ and the grace of God. The Bible does not deal with sexual orientation. I think the problem is in interpretation and the way the Bible has been used to condemn GLBT people. It is true that our faith is in God -- not the Bible. General revelation can only reveal that there is a God Creator, but it is only through Objective revelation (which is found in the Bible) that we know who this God is and that THIS GOD is the one who sent Jesus to the world. I do believe the Bible should be studied critically -- in a historical, grammatical, and literal (when possible) hermeneutic. Gay people have nothing to fear from the Bible. We need to understand the culture it was written in -- so important, especially when we read St. Paul, who I think takes the biggest slug from the GLBT community. He should actually be our patron saint, who being an outcast -- a murderer worse than any Adolf Hitler, to be shown the grace of God and to become an example of what God can do in someone's life! I am a Gay Christian who does believe in the Inspiration (breathed out writings)and infallibility (will not lead you to error) of Scripture. It took me 35 years to come out of my religious gay closet. What sustained me is my faith in Jesus Christ and the grace of God. The Bible does not deal with sexual orientation. I think the problem is in interpretation and the way the Bible has been used to condemn GLBT people. It is true that our faith is in God — not the Bible. General revelation can only reveal that there is a God Creator, but it is only through Objective revelation (which is found in the Bible) that we know who this God is and that THIS GOD is the one who sent Jesus to the world. I do believe the Bible should be studied critically — in a historical, grammatical, and literal (when possible) hermeneutic. Gay people have nothing to fear from the Bible. We need to understand the culture it was written in — so important, especially when we read St. Paul, who I think takes the biggest slug from the GLBT community. He should actually be our patron saint, who being an outcast — a murderer worse than any Adolf Hitler, to be shown the grace of God and to become an example of what God can do in someone’s life!

]]> By: tam http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-10241 tam Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:54:18 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-10241 Anita, Wow! I am speechless. You expressed my exact thoughts when you wrote these words. I, too, had many tear-filled nights when I was in college taking required theology courses. I went to a very conservative, Bible-is-the infallible-word-of-God school so it seemed a contradiction to me that their theology of infallibility didn't seem to match up with what they were teaching me about Bible study and interpretation. It did seem to me that there was much margin for error in the couple thousand years that it has taken the Bible to evolve. I mean monks drank beer, right? Don't you think they could have made a few mistakes? LOL! In all seriousness, It seemed I was being asked to put complete and utter trust in the fact that every single word of the Bible was absolutely true and not open for interpretation yet I saw all around me in those conservative circles how certain Old Testament laws applied and some didn't ( I'm not suppose to touch anything or anyone for the 5-7 days I'm on my period, right?), that Jesus was God's ultimate expression of Grace, (except for when He wasn't) and it, well, it hurt worse than when I found out there wasn't a Santa Claus...Seriously... These days, I choose to worship in a conservative church because I have made deep friendships there but I do not aplogize for my more liberal views and have incorporated much of what Pastor Kroenk taught me in my Lutheran confirmation classes long ago. I think the Bible needs to be read in context to the audience it was originally addressing and a knowledge of ancient history, etc is important. Does that mean a person needs to be a genius to understand or have a relationship with God? No. Not in my opinion, but if someone feels compelled to defend God's word, perhaps they should take time to study it. I have to continue to remind myself that the only harsh words Jesus had were for those who claimed to be experts in the Law and passed judgment on those who weren't. The outside of their cups were clean but the insides were filthy. Didn't mean to "preach to the choir"...just got really excited when I read these words. If someone as learned as you can have views similar to mine, than maybe my ideas aren't too off the mark? Anita,
Wow! I am speechless. You expressed my exact thoughts when you wrote these words. I, too, had many tear-filled nights when I was in college taking required theology courses. I went to a very conservative, Bible-is-the infallible-word-of-God school so it seemed a contradiction to me that their theology of infallibility didn’t seem to match up with what they were teaching me about Bible study and interpretation. It did seem to me that there was much margin for error in the couple thousand years that it has taken the Bible to evolve. I mean monks drank beer, right? Don’t you think they could have made a few mistakes? LOL! In all seriousness, It seemed I was being asked to put complete and utter trust in the fact that every single word of the Bible was absolutely true and not open for interpretation yet I saw all around me in those conservative circles how certain Old Testament laws applied and some didn’t ( I’m not suppose to touch anything or anyone for the 5-7 days I’m on my period, right?), that Jesus was God’s ultimate expression of Grace, (except for when He wasn’t) and it, well, it hurt worse than when I found out there wasn’t a Santa Claus…Seriously…
These days, I choose to worship in a conservative church because I have made deep friendships there but I do not aplogize for my more liberal views and have incorporated much of what Pastor Kroenk taught me in my Lutheran confirmation classes long ago. I think the Bible needs to be read in context to the audience it was originally addressing and a knowledge of ancient history, etc is important. Does that mean a person needs to be a genius to understand or have a relationship with God? No. Not in my opinion, but if someone feels compelled to defend God’s word, perhaps they should take time to study it. I have to continue to remind myself that the only harsh words Jesus had were for those who claimed to be experts in the Law and passed judgment on those who weren’t. The outside of their cups were clean but the insides were filthy.
Didn’t mean to “preach to the choir”…just got really excited when I read these words. If someone as learned as you can have views similar to mine, than maybe my ideas aren’t too off the mark?

]]> By: shay-ak http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-6474 shay-ak Sun, 05 Apr 2009 03:07:38 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-6474 Thank you for putting the intense conflict I have been having for over 20 years into words and context. With more clarity I have hope that the Spirit will have an easier time leading me onwards into fuller truth. Thank you for putting the intense conflict I have been having for over 20 years into words and context. With more clarity I have hope that the Spirit will have an easier time leading me onwards into fuller truth.

]]> By: anita http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-2343 anita Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:50:22 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-2343 Kevin--> Thank you for adding your comment and your recommendation to some of the books that have been influential in stirring around my own faith. Straight male. Gay woman. Similar journeys and book reviews. You gotta love it ! Kevin–> Thank you for adding your comment and your recommendation to some of the books that have been influential in stirring around my own faith. Straight male. Gay woman. Similar journeys and book reviews. You gotta love it !

]]> By: Kevin http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/faith-is-a-verb-not-a-thing/comment-page-1/#comment-2342 Kevin Thu, 18 Sep 2008 17:43:24 +0000 http://www.sisterfriends-together.org/wordpress/?p=45#comment-2342 I can relate to this a lot. I am a (straight, male) United Methodist pastor, and I attended a seminary which also shed light on the human origins of the Biblical stories. Though I did not cry myself to sleep, I did feel confused and perplexed about my relationship with the Bible. I have made peace with the Bible and with God, and I'm not (as) afraid to go beyond the Bible when I feel the Spirit of God is leading me to do so. By the way, I too love the Kathleen Norris book, "Amazing Grace: A Vocabulary of Faith." Also, you mentioned in one of your other blogs the two books, "If Grace Be True" and "If God is Love." Those two books have become VERY important to me and I STRONGLY recommend them to anybody looking to be liberated from the "accept-Christ-now-or-go-to-Hell" theology. Very liberating! Reading those books is a healing experience! I can relate to this a lot. I am a (straight, male) United Methodist pastor, and I attended a seminary which also shed light on the human origins of the Biblical stories. Though I did not cry myself to sleep, I did feel confused and perplexed about my relationship with the Bible. I have made peace with the Bible and with God, and I’m not (as) afraid to go beyond the Bible when I feel the Spirit of God is leading me to do so.

By the way, I too love the Kathleen Norris book, “Amazing Grace: A Vocabulary of Faith.”

Also, you mentioned in one of your other blogs the two books, “If Grace Be True” and “If God is Love.” Those two books have become VERY important to me and I STRONGLY recommend them to anybody looking to be liberated from the “accept-Christ-now-or-go-to-Hell” theology. Very liberating! Reading those books is a healing experience!

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