Lesbian Sex, Free Downloads, and Naked Photos
July 2, 2008
Can you imagine how many hits that title’s going to generate on the search engines? At this very moment a heterosexual man in Cleveland, Ohio is eagerly waiting for his slow as molasses dial-up modem to open up this page so he can. . . oh hi, Mr. Cleveland Guy. Here’s the free download of Martin Luther’s Commentary on the Book of Galatians, and the photo is of a little blue and green eyed kitten I saw during a trip to Greece last year and the cat, as you can see is totally naked. The little Athenian vixen. So that should take care of the lookie loos. Now onto the topic of Queer Christian Sexual Ethics. Drum roll please.
To my knowledge Jesus never said, “Do not engage in any sexual behavior until you enter into a heterosexual marriage,” but you’d never know it based on how the church deals with the question of Christian sexual ethics. Just don’t do it until you say ‘I do.‘ Period, end of story, and now let’s open our hymnals to page 473 as we sing together. That’s the full extent of the teaching and preaching I took from 38 plus years in the church. It’s what I heard at summer camp, in youth group, in Bible college and from the pulpit. My point for the moment isn’t to tackle this singular one-size-fits-all rule of sexual ethics, but to highlight how inadequately Christian teaching has been in addressing the sexual/sensual aspect of our humanity and thus failing to minister to the believer in their wholeness. As a result, were we a sisterhood of straight Christian women gathered here, a conversation on Christian sexual ethics would be just as challenging and needful for us to undertake. Unquestionably, there’s added complexity for us as queer believers in attempting to construct a paradigm (model) for queer Christian sexual ethics, but I’d propose before we leap into the gayer particulars our starting point begins where it would for any believer.
There are so many directions we can go with this and were I academically predisposed like Bon the chances are I’d begin by sketching out an outline to assist in developing a coherent flow and structure. As it is, I’m probably going to be shooting more from the hip and along with the comments you add, we’ll plow through a conversation on (queer) Christian sexual ethics until we’re all screaming “Enough already!”
So let me start by free-flowing some questions or discussion points that come up for me and then I’d like to encourage you to jump in with your own. We’ll combine it all, see what areas seem to most interest everyone and then we’ll take it from there, A to Z.
- Does the Bible (Hebrew and Christian Testaments) provide any absolutes in relation to sexual ethics? If so, what do we know in terms of the conditions and considerations behind those absolutes and are those same conditions and considerations applicable today?
- What sexual sins does the Bible directly address? Define ’sexual immorality’ as used in Scripture.
- Have any sexual mores changed in value in the time between antiquity and our contemporary culture? Are there behaviors once viewed as acceptable that are now judged as an offense, or vice versa?
- When discussing a code of sexual ethics to apply to our own lives are we able to base them on a clear set of Biblical sexual ethics?
- What specific passages, if any, are to be considered by Christians when discussing sexual ethics?
- Is sex outside of marriage sin? Is abstinence from sex the only moral option for single people?
- Is celibacy the only moral option for queer Christians?
- Does the limited availability of legalized marriage for gays and lesbians have any impact on creating a standard for queer Christian sexual ethics? Is monogamy the only moral option for partnered/married queer Christians?
- How should Christian lesbians negotiate sexual behavior and sexual desire while dating?
Those are the bullet points I came up with in 15 minutes. Now it’s your turn to contribute and while you do I’m going to watch the visitor hit stats go through the roof!
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Posted in Christian Living and Faith, Human Sexuality, Sexual Ethics
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 am
Ahh Thank you A.C. This is an area where I feel hugely ‘churched’ and desperately want to be ‘unchurched’. As we unpackage this and share our thoughts and experiences, I look forward to having my understanding and discernment opened. This has always been an area of shame, guilt and confusion for me in so many ways.
And I think all of that led to some hang ups for me and prevent me from experiencing things to the fullest. Okay I’m rambling… but I’m at work and cannot focus on the points that you mentioned … looking forward to reading what others will comment!
July 3rd, 2008 at 4:51 am
In between the work stuff, my quick thoughts on sexual ethics. I try to live according to the “love God, yourself and others” principle – subsequently my aim is not to hurt Go, myself or others, to put it simply. That impacts on all levels of living – including sex.
I do not believe that sex outside of marriage is sin, but I do believe that sex outside of love (”promiscuity”) is sin. Sex is such a spiritual and emotional thing that, if you do it outside of love, you are hurting yourself spiritually and emotionally. This goes for all kinds of people – gay, straight, men, women, trans, whatever.
I know it’s much more complicated than that, but that forms the basis of what I believe.
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 am
Anita… you crack me up! I love the sense of humor and ease with which you incorporate that into what you share here! You are brave! (And I love it!) I bet it will be your “best day ever” on your hit counter.
I am so glad you are asking these questions! (I know I’ve mentioned it a lot lately, but it is fresh) In my EX’s recent tomes of condemnation, one of the “arguments” made scripturally was “fornicators won’t go to heaven.” (The NIV of 1 Cor. 6:9 actually goes as far as to list “homosexuals” in it’s list: “You know that wicked people will not inherit the kingdom of God, don’t you? Stop deceiving yourselves! Sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals,…”).
At first I took “the hit”… THEN, fairly quickly I came here and read your discussion on “clobber texts” like 1 Cor. 6:9, and found solace. Then I also remembered, “Duh! You ‘married’ this woman 3 times! Sex within ‘marriage’ is not fornication!”
Now, I know if I returned with that “argument,” it would have been dismissed as “God doesn’t sanction same-sex marriage” etc.
SO… I am looking forward to the answers to some of these questions for my continued edification on the journey! Bring it on!
July 3rd, 2008 at 8:25 am
I don’t believe that God has different standards regarding sex or anything else for that matter in straight people or gay ones.
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:53 am
Naked greek kitties and free downloads of Luther’s writings? What in the world is this site coming to????
)
July 3rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
OK, I haven’t read your article yet. I only came over the free pictures of naked lesbians having sex. And all I see is that picture of a cute little….cat. (Extra special clever of you).
But I’ve done this thing before. One post of mine that get the highest number of hits was called “Why Won’t Christians Sleep in the Nude”. Amazing. I’ve used the same technique with lesser success but never had the cojones to come up with a title as provocative as yours. Get ready for some nasty spambots.
July 3rd, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Joni–> I think what you’re saying is very common for any of us raised in the church, and I think human sexuality and sexual ethics is one of those areas that we’ve been given a load of baggage that needs unpacking so it can be examined and see what needs to stay, what needs to go, and what we can reframe in a way that’s life-giving rather than shame-inducing.
Ella–>I hope in the coming posts we’ll deal directly with some of the things you shared in your comments because it would seem some of that serves as a solid underpinning to this entire area of our lives…as all areas.
Wendy –> That’s such a weary argument and so circular it makes me woozy. “Gays can’t have sex because sex outside of marriage is sin and gays can’t marry.” And then when it’s legalized in parts of the world the argument ups the ante to, “Gays can’t have sex because God (or more accurately, the person making the statement) doesn’t recognize their marriage as legal.” Yes, I’m sure God is all concerned about legal recognition as the defining feature of marriage. Or…oh…I don’t know….maybe not!
DragonLady–>As you can see by my post for today, we’re on the same page in that regard. I don’t think being gay or lesbian gives us loopholes but at the same time I think it requires even more of us in terms of thoughtful reflection around all our decisions. Actually, that should probably be more the case with straight folks too.
Hoops–>Funny Honey.
Christian –> That was a great title Christian! John over at Suddenly Christian is a good one for making some great titles as well to bring in the hits. No doubt the spambots will be kicking things up but thank goodness for Askimet! Now, read the article you goofball!
July 4th, 2008 at 8:32 am
Thank You !!! Thought I was the only conventional, “vanilla” cookie out there !!! I have to agree with you. My perssonal choice is to be true to one person. I will not have sexual relations with someone just for the act of pleasure. For me, the reason for having sex is to be close to the one you love. I’m not saying you can’t have some fun with it !! Thanks for opening this subject. Can’t wait to see what others are thinking : )
August 19th, 2008 at 10:23 am
I could not help to laugh out loud…. had to think you really lost it !!!:))…. the Christianity and then suddenly.. lesbian sex and naked photos…
This is a good one.. very good…!!! Shows you how intelligent you are…lol…
August 19th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Mara –>The funniest thing (or saddest thing) is that this post is only a few hits away from being the post with the most hits overall. Up until now it’s been the page on “The Bible and Homosexuality” but every time some knucklehead searches for “lesbian sex” or “photos of lesbians having sex” (my stats tell me what people are putting into the search engine) this page pops up on their search engine. Just as I had hoped!
August 19th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I dunno, “naked photos” makes me think of blank Polaroids….
Oh, and offering Sexy ML’s commentary on Galatians is just too, too funny! (I *had* to get the word “sexy” in here somehow!)
Maybe you can tell by this post that I’m one of those “Zen Lutherans” Garrison Keillor talks about – the kind who stay awake all night worrying about nothing. (or should that be Nothig?!)
May 1st, 2009 at 5:44 am
“Does the limited availability of legalized marriage for gays and lesbians have any impact on creating a standard for queer Christian sexual ethics? Is monogamy the only moral option for partnered/married queer Christians? ”
Well, it would be nice if it did (ie here in the UK we have Civil Partnership, which carries the same legal rights and responsibilities as marriage), however as someone already said a lot of people ‘get round’ this one by saying the only marriage recognised by God is between a man and a woman.
When I was a first year university student, I did some work for the Student Ministry Team at a nice Anglican church. I was in charge of refreshments at student events. When the curate found out I was a lesbian, she said I could keep my position on the team if I decided to be celibate. When I said I couldn’t she said I was sinning because I was having sex outside of marriage. When I said ‘what if we get married?’ she said that we would still have to be celibate because even though the Church of England has to recognise Civil Partnerships, it still counts as evil sinful gay sex so I still couldn’t be on the team. Basically the message was ‘you can be a lesbian and have a lesbian wedding as long as you don’t have any sex’ (and she included kissing and holding hands in this!). So, long story short, I left the team. Then she told me how “disappointed” the leadership was that I hadn’t been able to prioritise the ministry I was doing (making cups of tea for students)
Anyway, I think that if LGBT people can get married, it should be accepted by the church as much as heterosexual marriage is. But I still haven’t married my girlfriend. I don’t really know what I think about sex before marriage. I used to think it was definitely wrong, and sometimes I still wonder if we should have waited. But then again, when we got together there was no Civil Partnership yet…